‘Christian Swingers’

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Is nat like Passens haven't bin doin dat kina ting fi ah while now.

same ting mii seyinn

dat wat da so-cawled prophetess ann ar usband da minister were doinn

[Suesumba]

let he woo iss widdout stone cast da furst stone da(1 cor 7:25)

how datta goh wuk?

[blugiant]

Jesus was speaking out about the hypocrisy of bringing just the woman as under the old covenant (Old testament):


Fornicatation = one of the words the bilbe uses to refer to pre-marital sex and other forms of sexual immorality.

Greek = Porneia from which we get pornography.

The terms uncleanness, unchaste and sexual immorality also include fornication.

There are other terms but we won't get into them at this point.

So for starters, just focusing on fornication:

Deuteronomy 22








Ezekiel 16:26
Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. (NKJV)




Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies ... (KJV)




1 Corinthians 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. (KJV)


1 Corinthians 6:9–10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (KJV)


1 Corinthians 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. (ESV)


2 Corinthians 12:21
And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed. (KJV)


Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness ... (KJV)


Ephesians 5:3–5
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. (KJV)


Colossians 3:5
Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. (NKJV)


1 Thessalonians 4:3–4
For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour... (KJV)




Jude 7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. (KJV)


Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. (KJV)



Matthew 15:19-20, 1 Corinthians 5:1-2, 6:9-11, 6:16-20, 7:36-38, Ephesians 5:3-5, Hebrews 13:4, Colossians 3:5-6.


No not at all...it would be a special miracle.

mii affii disagree widd yuh jesus was implyinn dat dem men paid fe sex widd prostitute so dem neva ave cleen hands fe judge

so tropi yuh usinn da greek meaninn ann natt da hebrew meaninn aff fornication even dough da hebrew tekk credit fe writinn da bible. usinn onlee da greek meaninn aff fornication lead to incorrect canclusions. hebrew awlso used da wurd fornication fe descibe idolatary ann sex wid egyptians. de ting bout usinn itt as prohibition against sex widd egyptians iss dat itt mekk itt seem like sex among da hebrews were natt cansidar fornification. read da verses yuh poas above bout fornication again carefullee ann yuh will see dem use itt diffarantlee. itt like wat mii doo widd mzungu ann oyinbo fe canfuse cah moas peeps onlee use wan meaninn even dough da wurd ave multiple meaninns.

yuh reminded mii aff diss yuth wey use fe pull out imm dictionaree wen mii use certain wurds fe describe imm school mates

yuh reallee believed inn da immaculate conceptsham

[blugiant]

how datta goh wuk?

married men wanted fe stone da ooman fe prostituion wen dem guiltee aff payinn fe itt demselves

itt like christians gettinn outrage ova christian swingers tings even dough dem same wan a chatt bout woo sleepinn da ministers, woo drappinn baggies, ann witch church member ar cheatinn

[blugiant]

Really? Chapter and verse please? Perhaps Hezekiah 2: 12



Chapter and verse please?

This is a passage against adultery it is not promoting whorish behaviour:



Once again what the heck do the churches in Jamaica teach and what was taught in the Bible Knowledge class...I believe onoo did write O and A levels in BK at one point? Clearly the teaching was lacking if people do not even know thee basics.

fram mii a yuth mii beeleeve rasta woo sed dem mess widd da bible fe fool blakk peeps so mii qwestian itt ann oww dem used itt fe brainwashed. so mii add issue widd peeps woo memorized itt ann told mii iff itt written inn da bible itt muss be troo

yuh rite bout itt was a passage against adultery ann wrang bout oww da meaninn aff adultery. itt told men to pay fe sex widd a prostitute raddar dan sleep widd annadda man wife. tink itt was inn proverbs 6:26. again tropi inn biblical thymes wen itt was written adulteree was defined as a man avinn sex widd annadda man wife ar concubine widdout imm permission, natt as yuh arguinn sex outside aff imm marriage. new testament a man commit adultry iff imm divorce imm wife. dat y mii luv fe tease divorce peeps dat accardinn to da bible dem committinn adultery.

den sunday school teachers use fe scared fe teach mii sintinn cah mii add great readinn comprehension skilled

[Tropicana]

mii affii disagree widd yuh jesus was implyinn dat dem men paid fe sex widd prostitute so dem neva ave cleen hands fe judge

He said nothing about prostitution in this passage. He was making it clear that they had all sinned and yes for some it may have been sexual sin.

so tropi yuh usinn da greek meaninn ann natt da hebrew meaninn aff fornication even dough da hebrew tekk credit fe writinn da bible. usinn onlee da greek meaninn aff fornication lead to incorrect canclusions.

I am not an expert on Greek and Hebrew. I gave you one example using the word pornea and said that there are other words as well.

hebrew awlso used da wurd fornication fe descibe idolatary ann sex wid egyptians. de ting bout usinn itt as prohibition against sex widd egyptians iss dat itt mekk itt seem like sex among da hebrews were natt cansidar fornification. read da verses yuh poas above bout fornication again carefullee ann yuh will see dem use itt diffarantlee. itt like wat mii doo widd mzungu ann oyinbo fe canfuse cah moas peeps onlee use wan meaninn even dough da wurd ave multiple meaninns.

yuh reminded mii aff diss yuth wey use fe pull out imm dictionaree wen mii use certain wurds fe describe imm school mates

yuh reallee believed inn da immaculate conceptsham

Again need someone with a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew to go into that level of depth. You asked where the Bible forbid fornication and I gave you nuff examples.

Re: deeper discussion of Greek and Hebrew text hopefully Diplomat will stop by sooner rather than later.

[blugiant]

He said nothing about prostitution in this passage. He was making it clear that they had all sinned and yes for some it may have been sexual sin.



I am not an expert on Greek and Hebrew. I gave you one example using the word pornea and said that there are other words as well.





Again need someone with a knowledge of Greek and Hebrew to go into that level of depth. You asked where the Bible forbid fornication and I gave you nuff examples.

Re: deeper discussion of Greek and Hebrew text hopefully Diplomat will stop by sooner rather than later.

yu rite tropi itt wass natt bout prostitution butt adultery cah dat y da scribes were judginn ar. jesus anwsar was da ooman commited adultery butt da man woo shi was widd awlso committed adultery too. inn effect imm was makinn a statement bout religious leaders woo condemn adultery wild engaginn inn were guilty hypocrites. now dat mii tink aff dat itt apply to sum christians woo condemn christian swingers

tropi mii was juss pintinn out dat yuh usinn da greek definition aff fornication to define hebrew writinn aff da bible so yuh interpretation wood be flawed cah two diffarant meaninns: one greek one hebrew.

churchdude pon vacateshan?

[blugiant]

Christian Swingers?

Author: Roger Barrier

Dear Roger,

Recently, I discovered that some very close Christian friends of ours are involved in "swinging", where they basically trade each other for sex with other consenting couples. We sort of stumbled upon this discovery and now, it is incredibly awkward for us to even have the relationship knowing this fact and we are torn on what to do. The couple would never do it with friends (one of their rules) but they are open to doing this with other random couples that they meet online, etc.

While I understand that all couples have to keep their sex lives healthy and exciting, I believe that as a Christian, this crosses the line. This other couple is also Christian and they have been adamant that there is no scriptural evidence that their lifestyle is sinful. They justify it that it is only for the excitement and that it helps their personal sex life and they are not pursuing relationships with the people they swing with.

However, as Christian friends, I am unsure what to do. I don't want to judge our friends but how can I approach this subject with Christians who choose to do this and have seemingly already justified the lifestyle?

They have 4 children under 10 and obviously keep this from them and any of their other friends and family. At this point, my wife and I feel that our best solution is to try and bring scripture to them and share our concerns as friends, but we feel they will dismiss it as they have already "researched" this topic and feel comfortable with it. I can't just pretend I don't care but I am concerned that even approaching them about the subject could end the relationship. Any thoughts would be helpful.

Name Withheld



Dear Name Withheld,

Several defining verses come immediately to mind: “But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people” (Ephesians 5:3). One definition of sexual immorality is sex with someone who is not your spouse. Another term for this behavior is “adultery”. The fact that you know of their “secret” means that the hint is public.



The writer to the Hebrews could not have been more explicit: “Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral” (Hebrews 13:4-5).



It seems to me that whatever research they did was “VERY POOR RESEARCH”! They obviously looked in all the wrong places. I imagine that the conclusions they reached are the ones that can be found in Playboy and Hustler and a variety of internet porn sites. Is anyone surprised these days by the wild variety of justifications Christian people employ to delude themselves into believing that their sinful behaviors aren’t really sin? I think not! The world may swing; but, according to Romans 1:18-32 the people in the world don’t know any better. We Christians, on the other hand, know better--mostly. We Christians are Christ indwelt and therefore distinctive in our love for the truth, for Jesus, for purity and for holiness.



Of course, swinging is nothing new. King Herod did a little swinging with his brother Phillip’s wife, Herodias (Mark 6:17).



I mention both of the above stories because I predict that unless repentance and purity soon avail, your swinging Christian friends and their children will end up devestated.



So, in approaching them, you may save a marriage and more than one family. How do you proceed? Let me share a few Biblical guidelines.



First, you have God’s approval in approaching them. In fact, Paul gave us the responsibility to guide them into truth and repentance: “Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted” (Galatians 6:1-2). I doubt that you’ll be tempted to join their activities as Paul warns us; however, you can make it your goal to restore them to the Faith.



Second, pick the right time and place. You can do the right thing at the wrong time, or the wrong thing at the right time; but, wise are those who know just when and how to share the right thing at the right time.



Third, share your love and concern for them.



Fourth, gently show them the Biblical truths of Ephesians 5:3; and Hebrews 13:4-5. I would also discuss with them 1 Corinthians 6:9-11: “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.”



Remind them that they are redeemed out of sinful immorality by the blood of Christ and Jesus expects them to act like it.



Discuss 1 Corinthians 6:18-20: “From sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.



Fifth, forward this Ask Roger answer to them.



If they listen to you, repent and forsake their sin, you may not only have salvaged some families, but you very well may have helped save their souls from Hell.



Unfortunately, you concerns about sabotaging the relationship are very real. Unfortunately, my experience is that they will most likely reject you, your Biblical truth and your friendship. They’ll dismiss you as “judgmental”. Sorry. Sin often separates relationships. Sorry. Your relationship with them may be restored after they repent, confess their sin and forsake their behaviors. But, until then, your relationship will be functionally dead.



You didn’t mention whether or not the swinging couples were connected to a church or small group. In many ways a Christian small group functions like a church. If they are involved in a small group, it is the responsibility of the leaders of the group to approach the swingers several times with an increasing number of group members in order to lead them to repentance. If they respond, great! If they don’t, Jesus taught that they are to be excluded and no longer allowed to be in the group:



If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector (Matthew 18:15-17).



Paul affirmed this procedure in dealing with a case of sexual immorality in the First Baptist Church of Corinth:



It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? … hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 5:1-5).



The misplaced pride among the Corinthian church members regarding the sexual sin in their midst may well parallel the pride and cavalier attitude of your swinging friends.



When (hopefully not “if”) your friends come to their senses and once again seek purity, then welcome them back into the fellowship according to Paul’s guidelines in 2 Corinthians 2:6-9:



The punishment inflicted on him by the majority is sufficient for him. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. I urge you, therefore, to reaffirm your love for him.



Finally, it may be that your friends attend a church where they are not involved and not known. Unfortunately, in this case, you will be unable to enlist the help of others to help you confront the swingers. Whatever you do, don’t go alone into their presence. Have a prayer partner and/or a godly Christian accompany you. It is never good to confront sin alone.



God Speed. Good Luck. God Bless. May the Holy Spirit go before you and prepare their swinging hearts to receive forgiveness and restoration.



Sincerely, Roger

http://www.preachitteachit.org/articles-blogs/ask-roger/post/archive/2011/november/article/christian-swingers/

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Of course, swinging is nothing new. King Herod did a little swinging with his brother Phillip’s wife, Herodias (Mark 6:17).



I mention both of the above stories because I predict that unless repentance and purity soon avail, your swinging Christian friends and their children will end up devestated.

neva knew dat king herod was a swinger inn da bible

affii goo read itt again

[Tropicana]

The Bible is very clear about what is and isn't sin and it does not hesitate to identify sexual misconduct when it takes place so why should any of this surprise you? Again there seems to be a lack of familiarity with well known scriptures here.

[blugiant]

The Bible is very clear about what is and isn't sin and it does not hesitate to identify sexual misconduct when it takes place so why should any of this surprise you? Again there seems to be a lack of familiarity with well known scriptures here.

yuh sey dat like itt natt open to interpretation. mii natt seyinn da de bible doan limit sexualitee cah itt do. itt awlso replete widd sexual themes dat y sum societee use fe cansidered itt pornography.

look pon onan sum peeps use da storee fe argue against masturbateshan wen onan sinned was ignorinn da levite law to procreate widd imm dead brother wife. dat y imm spilled imm seed pon da ground. iff dat was clear oww cum onan storee iss open to diffarant interpretations. wear christians gitt itt chubble iss wen den assume dat deer iss onlee deer interpretation ann itt accurate.

den again religion was mii wurst subjekk

[Tropicana]

What other interpretation could there be to the Bible's prohibitions against fornication.

I don't get you. you gainst homoesexuality but you are try mek argument that prohibitions gainst fornication.

[blugiant]

What other interpretation could there be to the Bible's prohibitions against fornication.

I don't get you. you gainst homoesexuality but you are try mek argument that prohibitions gainst fornication.

prohibition ann adultery laws predate da bible. deer ar addar interpretations ann fe wan meaninn nuh rite. abandoninn god is fornification. sum christianuse itt sey itt eiddar abstinence ar marriage ann anneeting else iss fornification. itt like a twice married minister bunn fiyah fornification wen imm guiltee aff fornification cah imm remarried

christian swingers to mii iss wrang butt deer iss annada issue itt raised ann itt deal widd oww christians pikk ann choose wat meaninns aff wurds like fornification. da wurd fornification sum thyme inn da bible was used to chatt bout idolotary ann sleepinn widd egyptians ann fii ignore ann apply onlee sex outside aff marriage wrang.

[Tropicana]

Diplomat, I have been calling for you to come in here for a long time. I hope you will stop by now that you are here.